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Kelley
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PostSubject: Chapters 8-11   Tue May 01, 2007 3:56 pm

This forum is for the discussion of The Portrait of a Lady, chapters 8-11.
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Minimoosey

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PostSubject: Re: Chapters 8-11   Tue May 15, 2007 6:22 am

This section starts out with Lord Warburton's character expanding. We learn that he is an aristocrat that doesn't have much meaning in his life. Isabel visits with his sisters and realizes that they are upper class aristocracts with "no life." They are shallow and I feel that they are the stereotype of British women. Ralph on the other hand meets one of Isabel's friends, Henrietta. She is a journalist that is straight-forward and wants to analyze the British Aristocracy. We see many opinions shared about each character.

I am surprised that Caspar Goodwood will be visiting. I think his part in the novel is to bring out more of Isabel's character, not to wisk her away to be married.
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Kelley
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PostSubject: Re: Chapters 8-11   Tue May 15, 2007 8:10 pm

Chapters 8-11:

I think that Henrietta is supposed to embody what the novel presents as American women, she is loud and presumptuous, and often oversteps her bounds. I think she comes across rude and self absorbed. The women of England seem more refined and aware of manners.

Isabel is attracted to Lord Warburton, who has made some advances to her, but she has pulled away. Casper is also presumptuous in following Isabel to England and wanting to convince her to marry him.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapters 8-11   Wed May 16, 2007 8:40 am

I often wonder where Isabel got her character from. She apparently was raised quietly in America?
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Kelley
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PostSubject: Re: Chapters 8-11   Wed May 16, 2007 4:42 pm

It is an interesting portrayal of how "American women" are. I felt that the novel seems to imply that regardless of how a woman was brought up if she was American she would exhibit these qualities. Mrs. Touchett has some of these independent qualities, but living in Europe has refined her and given her manners. I wonder if Henry is making a point about the differing countries and cultures? We know that he walked away from America in protest, and gained English citizenship, is this just a subtle portrayal of his dissatisfaction with American culture??
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PostSubject: Re: Chapters 8-11   Wed May 16, 2007 9:30 pm

Kelley, do you think the Europeans are "refined" and "display" good manners. Some of these qualities are not so much manners, but customs. What we see Europeans as "refined," may not really be.

Explain refined through the European culture. I think the aristocrats in America also do the "refined" behaviors too. Are we as Americans in the aristocrat society show any less menners.

Just curious where you are coming from. I think the European aristocrats are much more pretentious and "prissy." Are the Americans that way too? Maybe.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapters 8-11   Thu May 17, 2007 2:19 am

It isn't my personal belief, I feel like this is what the author is trying to portray through his character's behavior and personalities.
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PostSubject: Re: Chapters 8-11   Thu May 17, 2007 10:22 am

Ahhhh. Do you think that the author, being American, thinks that the Americans are not as sophisticated?
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PostSubject: Re: Chapters 8-11   Fri May 25, 2007 8:19 am

I've enjoyed reading thediscussion the two of you have had about this. I apologize for not keeping up and jumping in. i think the author is portraying characterizations of what the 'american woman' is considered to be from the english persective and then doing the same with what mericans might have perceived the engilish aristocracy to be like. he actually addresses it when he mentions Mr. touchetts dislike of how he was portrayed by an earlier author. he reconginzed that it was a stereotypical view of his position and resented it
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PostSubject: Re: Chapters 8-11   Fri May 25, 2007 8:31 am

Good point mom, I forgot about that part.
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